Production Competition - 001/DSF DUBSTEP

I imagine there’s an element of playing it on a midi device because it often sounds natural and loose and off the grid

Shuffle???

1 BigUp

Ye shuffle! I dunno how to get it sounding like the good stuff. It feels as if it’s sagging in areas where it should be tight. Even though the grid placement is correct for the genre there’s milliseconds difference that makes all the odds which I imagine is easier to tap in than change on the grid which I’ve been doing by taking the kick and snare slightly off beat where I thought it needed it

Shuffle really sucks on everything I’ve tried

1 BigUp

It’s really its own form of art to make a 2-step rhythm groove. Or any other rhythm, for that matter.

This made me chuckle.

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You know what I meant (snare on the 3rd beat etc.) no matter what arrangement I apply it always sounds dull and not tight so I imagine playing it in is prob the best way to get all those micro timings. Shame my natural rhythm is butters

1 BigUp

The notion that anything is “correct” for a given genre is kind of a funny way to express things being “typical” for a genre though, don’t you think? Becase the word “correct” implies that you can somehow have “incorrect” placements of elements, which in itself is a silly idea when it comes to writing music. I think the key part of anything creative is the intent. Of course, following some guidelines or defining characteristics adhering to a specific style, can be part of this intent.

Not tryna diss, just thinking out loud btw.
This is gonna sounds pretty abstract probably, but here’s some thoughts on making beats in general.

I’ve found that I rarely need to go much higher than 16th note resolution to be able to create interesting rhythms. That’s 16 different possible locations, for each of the elements in the song, within 1 bar of music, yeah? That’s a whole lot. Increase this resolution to 32nd notes? Or subdivide some of those 16th notes down to some tuplets?

Don’t limit yourself to creating the groove with just drum sounds. Every single element you choose to include in your beat can contribute to the groove as a whole. In fact, I’d go so far to say that you shouldn’t include stuff that doesn’t contribute to the groove, at all. Just leave it out, drop that stuff.

For me, it all basically boils down to where your elements are placed, how intense they are (in volume, sharpness, punch, or lack of any of these, contrast, etc) and what “function” they serve in the song and groove as a whole (rhythmical, melodic, harmonic, etc). The consideration of the rhythm always comes first, since both melody and harmony need to follow some kind of structure to “make sense”.Without a groovy beat, anything else falls flat.

That’s the challenge, I guess. To try out a whole lot of different things, see what works, what you like, learn from it, evolve. It might sound like I’m totally overthinking the whole process, kinda hard to explain in words. A lot of this becomes much easier if you just keep on doing it more, and really think about what you’re doing, try to remember what worked well last time, etc.

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I think part of what is tricky about shuffle, is that it think real shuffle comes from a group of people feeling the central rhythm. It’s why bluegrass has that drive to it, too.
It’s kind of hard to get a really convincing shuffle going on by yourself (at least, imo). Like, swing in jazz isn’t just playing triplets, and a good drummer can get that groove going, but you need something else, like the walking bass, to play off of and truly get the swing or shuffle going, and that energy is really hard to get in a box by yourself

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Yeah, for sure. I’ve gotten some pretty good results playing on drum pads and my keyboard at home, after many takes, but nothing beats an actual jam with other people. This is definitely something you can practice and get better at alone too though, obviously.

Dubstep is still in essence programmed electronic music though, so it can be very challenging to come up with a shuffle that works within the context of short, repeating rhythmical patterns, without it sounding disjointed and chaotic in a “bad” way.
I’ve had a few sessions with @Harkat where he showed me stuff I haven’t thought that much of before, like actually looking at the numbers showing you exactly how “off-grid” the different hits are in the DAW on each bar, and lining up other elements so they hit at the same time, etc. He’s a mastermind when it comes to that 2-step shuffle shit fr, learned a lot from him regarding that.

EDIT as y’all know I’ve been working a lot more with “larger structures” when it comes to rhythm stuff the last few years. How to incorporate more complex syncopation in song structures that makes sense; polyrhythms, tuplet sub-structures, polymeters, hypermeters, whatever. So it was cool to listen to Harkat’s very straight-forward “it has to work on a club dancefloor too m8” approach to making stuff, haha.

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One of the best pieces of advice I got from another friend was that you should be able to “head nod” to the beat, that you have to be able to feel where the accent of the rhythm is. If you can’t do that, then how are people supposed to “know” how to dance to it in a club setting? This friend also always told me to “turn down the snare”, haha. What I’ve taken away from that is mainly that even if you turn down the beat a LOT in volume, the accent patterns and levels of the different elements should still be clear (of course according to what elements you want to be in focus at any given time). Great advice when it comes to mixing, it’s much easier to hear if things are “too loud” comparted to other things when your volume is super low.

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I usually have the kick and snare on the grid to keep things anchored, and then use the accents and percussion off grid to get some movement.

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5 days til deadline!

Is it too late to join in on the competition? I am new to this forum btw.

1 BigUp

welcome, and no it’s not too late. as long as you can get it in before the deadline, go for it

1 BigUp

Awesome, gl dude!

1 BigUp

I think I’m gonna have to just turn mine in lol. I am not enjoying working on it rn. Gonna try and polish the turd

1 BigUp

Thats why I bounced mine soon as it was done. Then I cant keep listening, hate it, and tweak it into the abyss

Not too late. Read the rules in the first post, and submit to me in a DM via sendspace, wetransfer etc on Friday.

Welcome, you’ve got a few days to bash out a track, good luck

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2 days to go bitches x

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