1 BigUp
Well it’s definitely known for heavy autist traits, so my point still stands imho.
2 Likes
How do you get over that bit where you have a beat and a synth and a sub and some FX it all sounds fucking ace rolling for 64 bars
This is the bit I hate the most. I just cant figure out where to go or what to add - nothing sounds good, or it’s just another sound that follows the synth/sub notes.
Then I get bored and another thing ends up in the mountainous unfinished folder.
This is what I have (ignore the clipping I haven’t mixed it properly yet)
Sub is G4 / D5 and on the second break theres 1 E4 note
Synth is roughly G / D
I extend the loop in either direction and remove/decrease-vol/filter on some channels etc, so you have a barebones intro/outro, then u can turn one into a breakdown or w/ever and play with the different sections
1 BigUp
go from 64 bars to completely new beat less mid section - ambient or sound fx’y bridge thing for 16 bars
then back to the same 64 bars that you have copied so it goes:
- first 64bar - new 16bar - second (copy of old) 64 bar
then fuck around with that second 64 bar - so its different from the first 64 bar loop
-
you only really need to change the beats in like the last two bars of every 16t or 8th sections
-
like reverse them or filter them a bit
then when you have that next second 64 bar and its sort of different - you can go back to first and see if something shows itself up for being mutilatified or mutationized
What I usually do - is mute the drums and put more fx in that emphasize the melodic elements
or like put in more percussion bits or incidentals in - but some that are more reverbed or delayed-like - in the background - so they stand out less but fill up the space
like build the depth up from the background and out - like make it richer - some harmonic some dissonant and fucky
then see how that whole additions sounds with the drums unmuted - usually you can then make the background fx or percussion somehow interact with the og drums -and so get to change those drums a bit more
3 Likes
Cheers bois, onwards we go
1 BigUp
I can hear loads of top melodies on this one man.
You can also make an intro with only the 1st bass note and build a chord on top, then introduce the section you have where the bass is changing.
copy paste, remove something, add something else
you could add some percussion loop after a 32
take out the pad after 64 and add some more percussion
remove the percussion after another 32 and maybe introduce some fx or melodic element
bring the pad back
etc
also, i feel like something is offkey in there, or maybe it’s just the beat throwing me off, i think you could tighten it up a bit.
also, 32bar delay tails ftw
1 BigUp
I like that none of you actually give any tips on the melodic/harmonic stuff, haha.
Like, why did you choose those bass notes and the harmonies on top? Did you have any plan for that, apart from the 4 second loop you have now?
With melodic stuff, it’s smart to work in iterations. This usually goes before sound design in my process. Try out a lot of different combinations of bass and harmony just in MIDI, before committing to anything. Otherwise, it’s super easy to “paint yourself into a corner” so to speak, thinking that you can’t change anything because of the harmony stuff you already have going. But that harmony stuff is useless if it’s just a 4 second loop.
1 BigUp
pick a scale
use notes from within that scale
done
1 BigUp
another thing is that jungle and d&b (good techno) rarely has actual melodies
it seems to be that thing that is not quite a melody yet
like a ringlet of notes in succession - bell-tree sheen
a bit of an arp like doop diip boob duub but not actual melody structures
or if there is genuine melodic structure then parts are erased so as to not compete with either the bass call and response or overshadow the harmonic expression of pads and in and out instrument bits that just slightly add color
IMHO
i think you could argue that when it does have actual melodies it becomes or turns into electronica or idm - even if its strictly techno, jungle or d&b structure rhythmically
but ‘historically’ the best tunes are minimalist harmonically and then maximalist on the engineering level if that makes sense
doesn’t mean it all couldn’t be more melodic or consciously changing in harmonics, its just rare
4 Likes
like 99% of these genres are bad for this reason
liquid D&B (melody heavy soft soulful d&b two step beats, not complex jungle rhythms)
electro house (big annoying melodic maximalist instruments on top of minimal funky beats)
fusion hip hop (melodic content of other genres on top of minimal boom bap)
jazz hip hop (same as fusion but even harder to balance beats and melody)
(think the roots or jazzmatazz but bad)
the way where ‘‘jazzy hip hop’’ can be cool is the other way around where its hip hop where the beat is central and some jazz loops are sampled from records and cut up to flutter and bub in around the beats
(like madlib or premier)
and for all those genres, what makes them bad is because there is not room enough for the notes or melodic structures, LIKE there is in the OG genres that these subgenres build upon/ steal from
which means these bad secondary genres make room for these notes by making shit beats or basic rhythms
can you imagine anything worse than complex easy listening jazz with a boom bap beat on top
its a contradiction in taste they are not aware of because they have bad taste
content and form works against each other - a boom bap beat is not fucking smooth - its just conditioning that beats to study to is a thing , its so incredibly white, like smooth jazz was which ruined jazz for the most part - or smooth rock that ruined rock music
its also why the complex melodic jazz of bebop and such doesn’t have clearly defined rhythmic ‘beats’ beats - but more like percussive or extremely expressive drumming - because that is what ‘rhythmically situates’ the complex note structure and harmony
its not that bullshit about the notes they dont play in that sort of jazz, its that they can play the notes few other genres allow - because the complex expressive rhythms underlying or controlling the context takes you on that journey where that can happen
maybe another example that makes the problem clear is spoken word poetry
the form makes the content annoying and the content makes the form annoying
at least 99% of the time, im sure someone can make spoken word poetry somewhat interesting
DONT GET ME WRONG
this does mean that it is a very cool and genuine thing to want to change and originate
i just dont see anyone doing it convincingly without extreme considerations of the balance of rhythm and then very secondarily what harmonic content can be structured
anyway rhythm > harmony RANT again
4 Likes
Yeah, don’t want to go overboard with super melodic stuff, definitely skews the vibe.
BUT
Even if you just have a few very sparse stabs or short melodic fragments, it’s recommended to have some variation in these that makes sense, like going from one chord stab to another in different parts of the song, or just a very short arp melody within the same scale you’re working in.
1 BigUp
exactly my dude
just make a crazy made up scale
then it works
its not like there are necessarily hard rules
but it cant do the classical music harmony - white supremacy - bach - bethoven - mozart - mood switch shit - yet
1 BigUp
My main point is that you want to make sense of these melodic/harmonic parts way before you get lost into the sound design and the rest of the arrangement/variations etc. Then you won’t get stuck as easily as just choosing some random notes that you end up not knowing what to do with.
It’s very easy to go onward with only one or two chords, but with too many notes in them, implying a harmony that will not necessarily work with any melodic things without sounding cheesy or whatever.
Better to start with just simple intervals, like a diminished fifth, or minor third, or whatever. Just 2 notes stacked can be enough, and it’s much easier to come up with nicer variations on that. I’ve tried to teach @Harkat this, and I think he got it after a while. Minimal vibe ye? Do more with less, etc.
1 BigUp
a really eye opening thing for me
was dam funk i think - in this episode explaining what funk was
i grew up with all these white and mixed people appropriating black funk and soul music in music school
and it always seemed like soul and blues music was genuine and emotional
but funk music was like bragging trying to be cool to these people - party music that was hard to play because you had to be funky - like some red hot chili peppers slap bass bullshit, the bad side of bootsy collins and earth wind and fire - like a christmas tune by james brown or stevie wonder in their later years
and it is, the appropriated funk music is that unserious - off beat party funk - almost disco
but originally the funk is supposed to express being in a funk, stretching the notes and rhythms to express that pain, the tear in the eye, blood of slaves and shit like that
and then the OG disco is the gay party - but positive anti reaction to that depressed funk, that keeps some of the funk - which makes disco cool and genuine - but it is a counter-reaction
but poor taste or appropriation mixed those two genres into like super annoying slap bass party soul music
disco funk
eeeuurgh
and then it could be played on tv as merely beige dance music
oh yeah and the same thing happens with house as with disco
its also the funk appropriation in an unserious way that makes snoop, dr dre and most of the 90s west coast rap - if not bad, then definitely not timeless
2 Likes
banger
edit:
1 BigUp
racist, rhythm essentialism is the only way forward for dance and techno -if not for ambient where all the beat stuff is missing along with all the bad sides of musical imperialism
That might be because of the sample - see below
I had the 4 note melody loop I ripped from some TV programe or something. I forget where. I believe I only used the first two notes. My tuner says they are somewhere around a G and then a D. Obviously they’re not clean synth VST notes hence the slightly offkey-ness when played with the bass notes which is an 808 sample up or down in a midi sampler to a G and a D. So I don’t think everything is truly in key (a term I dont fully understand anyway)
Something else I don’t fully understand. So say I have a G, a D, and an E notes (all in the key of C I believe…) but what does that actually mean for melodies. My music theory is basically null.
What could be tightened up?
It’s a sample of a break chopped up as usual. Some of the hits are not quantized as I didn’t want it to become metronomic. I wanted some human-ness to it.
envelopes (adsr, the hits own inherent dynamics)
and beat structures like quantizations or programmings
can both be either lose or tight
and they influence each other innit
1 BigUp