The Gender Gap in Music

So some of you may have seen this pop up last week.

http://www.residentadvisor.net/feed-item.aspx?id=86318

I personally didn’t really like the way this subject has been brought up (sarcasm & finger pointing), however there is obviously truth in the gender gap, (ignoring model djs and the like), and the “women just aren’t interested” isn’t really enough of a response.

Do promoters just not like booking female DJs (imo this is bullshit)? Is the gender gap because it’s deemed a boys club? Is it because women aren’t not encouraged to go into fields like music production/DJing from a young age? Is it because women often have different interests? is this the evil patriarchy at work? Thoughts?

1 BigUp

I can only name a handful of women DJ’s and Ive booked E.m.m.a for out next show.

Just feel its just that there is shit loads of men and very few woman and even more so when it comes to producers.

Thought the tumbler was pretty shit as well.

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women djs are bait ban from the scene imo

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The issue with the very male line ups thing is that I’m not sure what their supposed solution is. Booking female djs because you’re avoiding “very male line ups” feels like you’re massively underselling them and patronising them rather than if you booked a female DJ because they’re good.

That wasn’t meant as a reply specifically to you Ryan. Pressed the reply thing by accident

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The lack of women in production has bugged me since I first got into the scene. I have seen and heard plenty of guys ‘mansplaining’ production and dj stuff to girls, shit I have done it myself too many times. And it’s real irritating.

I think some of it comes down to objectification of women. Like a guy can be a an ugly fuck but have a decent talent at music and succeed, the same doesn’t really seem to be true of girls. Regardless of talent there does seem to be an extra pressure of looking good and that. It’s a stitch up I reckon. Even the most talented girls still have to be pretty to be stuck on the front of flyers etc. Like B Traits and Dj Rap are obviously both real talented and deserve all and any success they have had. have they been placed above others equally talented because they’re photogenic? Are other girls put off because these artists are the ones that are promoted?

I haven’t got a clue tbh.

1 BigUp

yeah i find this a really weird one cos in my experience through a few different areas in music
music is generally dominated by dudes, like they’re the ones who are obsessed and spend bare time record shopping and going to nights and so get into making it, not to say that i haven’t met some very dedicated female music heads and djs

my money’s on it being some kind of gender roles shit that we’re brought up with and don’t even realize as it’s happening, maybe cos dark heavy dance music is ‘manly’ or something so men feel drawn to it and women away from it

yeah it doesn’t help that vibe of like female dj ‘yeah but is she fit’

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There isn’t really a solution,catch 22 innit.

It could be either women are worried by putting themselves forward as DJs people will judge them on looks, and how true that is doesn’t matter as much as the fear being off putting.

Radio DJs actually have a much closer %, again referring to the video above maybe the increased verbal skills makes up space?

Something else i was thinking, Men do >tend< to be more obsessive than women, have that geeky ‘i need to beat it’ mentality, which may be a positive factor in fields such as production/DJing (and competitive gaming, etc).

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Yeah this seems to me a bottom up issue not top down.

lines like “Congrats, Butter Side Up, you have overwhelmingly male line-ups! Be a bit braver and book some women!” don’t make any sense.

Promoters aren’t not booking women because they choose to, its lack of choice because not enough women are getting to that level to get booked (be it given up or never started).

Club culture is more male than female (with some exceptions). For a number of reasons, I’ll happily go to an event by my self but i know no females who would, is that ‘male privilege’? i don’t even know anymore.

1 BigUp

Also, I guess there is a massive several hundred year legacy that has resulted in an entrenched mentality that women are only just beginning to overcome. It ain’t even a hundred years since women had the right to vote. Women are still paid less in most all professional careers in every developed country.

And that kinda leads you on to think, that, yeah for sure the opportunities are there, the equality seems there to many (although, honestly I doubt it is). But perhaps women don’t seem as obsessive or nerdy because they simply haven’t had the time, encouragement, nurturing and acceptance that they need to let this side flourish? Maybe give it another 30 years with that white male demographic that has run shit for sooo long making an active effort to get women involved, then it’ll actually be a level playing field?

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Curious how much is nature and how much is nurture. The fact (if its true) that gifted men more often have an asymmetrical cognitive profile is interesting. But no doubt there are still things lingering from old ways of thinking.

Girls are doing better than boys in the UK (and i believe US) school system. The pay gap in the UK is becoming less all the time particularly from everything but the very top, CEOs etc (which will be the last thing to change). The times they are a changing.

I really don’t think so, from what I’ve seen raising a girl and being surrounded by all these girls. You know I’ve been showing my daughter synths and turntables and all the rest, she seriously couldn’t care less. All her friends are kinda wowed, like that is a turntable!, then they take turns blowing my needles out on dollar records, and I try to get them to think that they could make music, her older friends are into really shit pop, like edm styled pop, and I’m like you could make that, and they’re like, “yeah, whatever.”

Turn that around to the other side, I’ve shown some boys, and they’re like WOW, and get into it, and start programming melodies and beats. :flushed: These fucking emoticons are utter shit, there is like no expression in any of them. Seriously. Just muted meaningless nothings.

There was a time in the 60’s, the last 60’s, not the coming 60’s, where all the hippie parents were like, everything is gender roles taught by society, fuck that man, we’re going to raise our kids with equality, and they’d give boy toys to girls, and girl toys to boys, and then the kids would eventually trade, as they found what they liked. I don’t think there is any kind of problem that people have their natural inborn interests and abilities. I do think there is a problem when you try to hammer people into gender roles, whether that is to increase diversity, or to enforce some weird particular traditional gender roles. Just let people grow and develop into what they want to be. If there is a shortage of male florists, so be it, if there is a shortage of female producers, so be it. It is just how it is.

NOW that doesn’t mean that girls should be discouraged from getting into production/dj’ing, or boys should be shielded from the allure of flowers. Good parents, a good community, will expose kids to all kinds of activities, and ways of being, and the kids will find what they like.

AND in my experience, women are way more INTO music, like the beat works way better on them. I’ve certainly noticed it with my girl and all her friends. I play beats and it goes right into my daughter and she just involuntarily starts moving. I call her on it, and she gets all mad, like, “I DON’T LIKE MUSIC!” Haha, sure. But I haven’t seen the same type of response in boys.

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Don’t have much to add except to say of all my friends I’ve had the most trouble getting my female friends interested in electronic music. The ones I’ve gotten to go to nights or festivals were those friends who are kinda like “oh…they’ll be party favors and booze…yea I guess I’ll go…”

Like my girlfriend doesn’t get it at all. I got her to go to a DJ night one because a friend of hers was spinning. She pretty much hated it. Around here every single event is a huge fucking sausage-fest. I don’t know if men in my neck of the words have turned the whole scene into a boys club or something…but there is a general lack of female interest.

hmmm interesting man, but like gender roles don’t just come from your parents, media and society in general

the adverts you see everyday on tv say here’s a doll for the little girl and a toy gun for the boy, so even if you’re letting them choose what they want there’s still outside influences man, people just wanna fit in after all

but obviously yeah i don’t have kids so can’t say i know all this over you

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No tv in the house.

I’m not sure the premise is right.

Because the premise bases itself on just extroverts or that kind of ability.
There’s very few extrovert men (or women for that matter) capable of producing or composing good music.
It has always been geeks = introverts and in that a societal ting.
Timbo is a geek. Dre is a geek. Mark Prichard is a geek. Deadmau5 and Prince are super geeks.
Beyonce seems like a geek with the references in her production too but she just happens to be gorgeous and there would be little purpose in focusing on her being capable of being introvert and geeky from a professional pov.

It’s not about women going for music, but about what other bits are expected of them. Nobody are missing the scourges of men that have trapped themselves inside bedrooms comparitively. So in that sense not about ability.

The whole thing is further obscured when djing is considered the same kind of musical ability, because that is not the point. The point is in that respect that ½ the audience wants just to look at a dj in any giving situation, sound being just extra.

Where do u live north Korea?

Shit wrong fucking button. That was aimed at nwj not having a tv

1 BigUp

this is all a case of trying to fix something that’s not really broken. also i think the “blaming shit on gender ;roles” argument is kinda disrespectful to humans. people can’t seem to make their own decisions; it’s always gender roles, media, political manipulation, advertising etc. especially if it’s something yuppie liberals don’t like/agree with.

so we make decisions based on biology?